The Untouchables vs. The Gestapo: The Results

Now you've seen that battle, let's look at how I came to this conclusion.  As mentioned before I am currently using the system that iHonk/Mike developed in order to determine the edges to each side.  I'll be showing you the stats followed by a verbal explanation.

In this system, Firearms are rated on four categories: muzzle velocity, effective range, clip size/caliber, and rate of fire.  The more frequently the weapon is likely used, the more weight it will have in the sim.  In addition to that, four X factors will be tallied against each other as well to determine the outcome.

With that, here it goes:



Untouchables vs. Gestapo

Primary: Tommygun vs. MP40

Muzzle Velocity (10) 7 vs 8
Effective Range (10) 6 vs 8
Clip Size/Caliber (10) 9 vs 7
Rate of Fire (10) 8 vs 7

30 vs 30.  EDGE: EVEN
Surprised these turned out rather neck and neck?  I was too.  I initially was leaning towards the Tommygun because of it's drum magazine and heavier bullets, but then I found out that the MP40's smaller bullet size meant greater overall accuracy.  Sure a 45 cal will stop you cold, but that also means the gun will kick a little more than a 9mm would.  It's larger firepower vs. greater accuracy here,  and the two narrowly even each other out.



Secondary: Colt Detective Special vs. Walther PPK

Muzzle Velocity (5) 3 vs 4
Effective Range (5) 3 vs 4
Clip Size/Caliber (5) 3 vs 3
Rate of Fire (5) 3 vs 4

12 vs 15.  EDGE: WALTHER PPK

This came as no surprise.  The Walther PPK had smaller rounds than the Colt Detective special, but not only did it have one more round than the revolver, but the rate of fire and the reload time makes the small semiauto the winner in this head to head match.

Tertiary: Springfield 1903 vs. Kar 98k

Muzzle Velocity (2.5) 2.5 vs 2.0
Effective Range (2.5) 2.5 vs 2.0
Clip Size/Caliber (2.5) 2.5 vs 2.0
Rate of Fire (2.5) 2 vs 2

9.5 vs 8.  EDGE: SPRINGFIELD 1903


These two rifles were very similar to each other and I expected this to come out as a draw.  My research, however, showed me that while the Kar 98k had a smoother bolt action, the Springfield rifle had a longer effective range with iron sights, a slightly larger caliber, and a faster muzzle velocity.  Point goes to the Springfield here.

Special: Winchester 1897 Shotgun vs. SDK Silenced Rifle

Muzzle Velocity (2.5) 2.0 vs 1.5
Effective Range (2.5) 1.5 vs 2.5
Clip Size/Caliber (2.5) 2.5 vs 1
Rate of Fire (2.5) 1 vs 1

7 vs 6.  EDGE: WINCHESTER 1897 SHOTGUN


The Silenced rifle clearly had a superior range over the shotgun and was also reported to use cyanide laced bullets in its magazine.  That being said, the bullets were essentially the same 9mm rounds you'd find in a Luger and the bolt action of this rifle looks very awkward to use.  In the time it would take the sniper to reload and aim each shot, the man with the shotgun could easily find him and blow his head off with a well placed slug.  Anyone can tell you that very few people walk away from a shotgun wound.

Training (5) 4 vs 4
Edge: EVEN.  Both sides were essentially elite police forces and thus would have very similar training.  While it was possible that some members from either side would have military experience, on the whole the training of both would be of police matters.  This pretty much debunks the idea that the Gestapo were a paramilitary big brother militia or that the Untouchables had any specialized training specific to them as opposed to the rest of the government agents out there.


Tactics (5) 3 vs 3.5
EDGE: GESTAPO.  Initially I thought all the Gestapo had  going for it was its fearmongering, which wouldn't work against a group of federal agents that have faced the mob.  However, the torture tactics they used to extract information from their detainees puts a lot more meat on their side as opposed to the Untouchables.  And yes, while the Mafia the Untouchables faced were no strangers to torture, understand that the Gestapo had the additional benefit of being government trained.

Morale (5) 4 vs 4.5
EDGE: GESTAPO.  Both sides were extremely neck and neck in this department; neither one of them likely to waiver from their ideals.  The Untouchables could never be bought out by the mob, nor could the Gestapo be bribed to act against the Fuhrer.  What gives the Gestapo the edge would be the fact that the Untouchables would have to show just cause before opening fire upon a threat, whereas the Gestapo were free to employ whatever means necessary to uphold the Reich.

Protection (5) 2 vs 2
EDGE: EVEN.  Let's face it.  Neither side had much when it came to body armor, since bulletproof vests for law enforcement weren't widely used at the time.  Aside from having trenchcoats on each side, I don't see either of them doing so well when it comes to a shootout.

Results: 71.5 vs 73

Winner: Gestapo

This first match was quite a shock to me, but it was also RIDICULOUSLY close.  I did want the Untouchables to win since they could stand up to Al Capone's mob no problem, but the Gestapo's technological edge in firearms and their willingness to perform inhumane acts to accomplish their goals is what ultimately allowed them to squeeze a victory this round.

So there you have it!  My first assessment and battle!  How did you like it?  Any suggestions as to what I can do to improve?  As always leave a comment.  But before that, let's see what we have coming up next:

From the criminal underworld of the turn of the century, two gangs will battle each other to see who rules the cobblestoned streets. 

Les Apaches: Ruthless thugs from the streets of Paris who gained infamy for their brutal tactics.

The Highbindera: The lethal Tong enforcers during the early days of San Francisco's Chinatown, known only to outsiders as the Chinese "hatchetmen".

WHO...IS...DEADLIEST?!

Thank you, and stay tuned.